Reentry: Searching for a Place to Call Home

Housing is at the heart of successful reentry when returning home from prison. Join Voices Unlocked as we expose the human stories behind the reality that returning citizens are 10 times more likely to face homelessness than the general population. Through deeply personal narratives from our guests Delonte Williams, Alexander Penn and Darnell Keys, we explore the urgent need for stable housing and the emotional strain it places on those fighting to rebuild their lives. Delonte shares his apprehension about returning to a neighborhood that could jeopardize his future, while Alex opens up about the struggle of reconnecting with loved ones after years apart. 

But the complications don’t end there. Hear from Tee Peters and Darnell Keyes as they explain the bureaucratic maze of housing support and the inequities that undermine their journey to reintegration. Discover how stigmatizing conditions in available housing options can feel like an extension of incarceration, and the dire need for empathy from policymakers and nonprofits alike. The episode calls for a powerful shift: empowering returning citizens by listening to their lived experiences and involving them in crafting solutions. It’s a call to break down barriers and foster a more inclusive, supportive environment for those looking to redefine their futures post-incarceration.

Follow this podcast so you'll be informed when new episodes are uploaded (twice a month). Meanwhile, read more stories and learn how you can contribute to reform; visit MoreThanOurCrimes.

Chapters

• 0:10 Challenges of Re-Entry Housing
• 7:21 Navigating Homelessness After Release
• 16:40 Empowering Returning Citizens for Successful Re-Entry

Transcript

PAM BAILEY: Hi, this is Pam Bailey. I am host of Voices Unlocked, the podcast produced by More Than Our Crimes, and we try to bring the humanity that's behind bars in federal prison out to you, so you can see them as people just like you, but also give you a better idea of the kinds of conditions they have to put up with because these are people who are going to be coming home and be your neighbors, and you should care about that. The topic for today is housing. That's a reentry topic, but I have to tell you, the people I talked to who are still in prison who are getting close to release, that is the number one concern. It's a huge worry. For those who have family members who are willing to take them in, that's great. But keep in mind that it's not just having a family member, it's having an appropriate family member.

They have to live in the city that you're going home to. They can't be in another state. You're supposed to be going home to the state where you got your charge, and it also has to be somebody who is not a drug addict, not getting into trouble, who's supportive of you. It's a very difficult time, and I've known people who've gone home to family members and then it turns out they were abusive sometimes or doing drugs, which gets that person into trouble. So it's not just available family members, it's an appropriate family member. If you don't have that, then you're in trouble. And you're going to be hearing about that from both Tyrell "Tee" Peters and Darnell Keyes, who are both sort of facing that situation now. And they're going to talk about it. First, I'm going to have you listen to two interviews I did with people who are still in prison and who are already having that worry on their minds. First is Delonte Williams, and he's somebody who does not have any family. He's from DC and he's worried about going back to the same neighborhood he was in. He knows himself. He knows if he were to shack up with somebody there, a distant relative that he does have there that he could get right back in trouble. So let's hear from Delonte.

DELONTE WILLIAMS: As far as housing goes, where I would live, that's the most important thing because that's a form of stability. So, if I have at least somewhere stable to lay my head and be safe at night, then it makes me not want... I don't have to rush to try to find money. A person with this problem, it could possibly force them back into a lifestyle of crime.

PAM: And in this other bite from Alexander Penn who is from Ohio, and he's getting close to going home again; this is his second time in. So he knows how hard it is, and he talks a little bit about the need to go back to a home that allows you to have a fresh start and not back to the same relationships. So listen to Alex.

ALEXANDER PENN: It's easy to become homeless when coming home from prison. And it's easy to such an extent that during the time that you are away, 10, 15 years, a lot of relationships that you had in the world disintegrate. This is kind of what fuels continuous criminal thinking because while you're in prison, knowing what you're going home to face, a lot of inmates or people tend to hold on to hustling and take shortcuts in order to try and gain some stability. When they walk out the door knowing that they're walking home basically homeless, this is where a conversation should start.

TYRELL "TEE" PETERS: I can relate to everything Alex just said, and it is a reason why returning citizens are almost 10% more likely to experience homelessness than the general public. Now why is that statistic...

PAM: I'm surprised it's not higher actually.

TEE: Exactly, but 10% more. No, not percent. I apologize. It's 10 times.

PAM: Okay, that makes more sense.

TEE: Ten times more likely to experience homelessness than the general public. And that's because when we return back to society, we lack a lot of support that we need. Some of us do 20, 30 years or even 10 years, and we come home to families who passed away and our support system is no longer there.

PAM: What was your situation?

TEE: And my situation was almost the same as everyone else's. When I got released I had to, well, I do have family; however, I couldn't stay with my family.

PAM: What did you do?

TEE: I went to a hotel for almost 45 days,

PAM: A nonprofit put you there?

TEE: A nonprofit, Voices for a Second Chance. Shout out to Voices for a Second Chance. They did put me in a hotel, but as I was explaining to you earlier about that, after the hotel stay, I had nowhere to go.

PAM: So what was it like living in...I mean, you're trying to find a job at that point. What was it like living in a hotel? Did you feel stable there or did you always feel like it was temporary so you couldn't really relax?

TEE: Well, I always felt like it was temporary. I always knew that it was temporary. I was always waiting on the next step. And in my case, the next step was...because you don't get housing automatically when you come home as a returning citizen, although they should get housing when they come home. So I had to go to the next step, which was going to a transitional home.

PAM: That is?

TEE: A transitional home is something almost like a halfway house, but we don't have to go by all the rules that a halfway house have to go through. We leave in the morning.

PAM: And how long was that for?

TEE: Oh, me staying there?

PAM: Yeah.

TEE: I stayed in there for 90 days and I got an extension, which was supposed to be for another 90 days, but it wasn't. So I was only given a 30-day extension and out of the blue I was kicked out of the transitional house, told, "Look, you need to come get your stuff." I was at work and I got a call telling me, "You need to come get your stuff. You're not supposed to be here anymore." I was like, how did that happen? I was told that I got an extension, but I was never told that my extension only lasted for 30 days.

PAM: I'm going to go back for a second. When you're coming out of prison, how did you even know where to go to get a hotel stay with Voices for a Second. Chance How'd you even know which agency to go to get these things?

TEE: Well, word of mouth. Word of mouth. And through my lawyer. Through my lawyer from the Second Look Project here in DC. I was given all of this information about the reentry organizations that help with returning citizens.

PAM: The reason why I ask that is because I'm on this email listserv, and I think a basic problem that exists is that there isn't any advance planning. So for instance, I would think it'd be possible for some kind of survey to be done or whatever. So they know which people who are going to be released and who are going to need housing. Then there wouldn't have to be this scurrying around, like the lawyers on this listserv. There's people all the time, lawyers saying, so-and-so's getting out in a week and he needs something, like, now! Everybody's scrambling around. It's like, does that have to be? By word of mouth? It seems like there could be a more planned way to this because how stressful that must be.

TEE: A lot of things people hear when they enter prison is that the first day of prison, you need to start your reentry plan. And a lot of us do it and a lot of us don't have the insight to see it, the foresight.

PAM: On the other hand, though, when I've tried to inquire for people...like when I have people starting to worry about it, they may have six months left. But when I inquire to different nonprofits, they tell me, well, have 'em contact us when they get out.

TEE: When they get out.

PAM: Yeah.

TEE: That's too late.

PAM: I know.

TEE: That is entirely too late. And so yeah, just experiencing not being able to have somewhere to stay, homelessness. A lot of returning citizens experience that and it should be something that we shouldn't have to think about when we are coming home.

PAM: What has been the emotional impact on you since you're having to work too?

TEE: It does affect me. I'm a different type of person, but I do feel the hurt of not having somewhere to stay and it feels like I'm not even free for real because I don't have my own place. I don't have the freedom to go and come and have my own place. I don't feel independent and it is an emotional strain on me not being able to have my own place.

PAM: And plus you mentioned that now, you were found eligible for a DC program because you have a job...

TEE: Rapid rehousing,.

PAM: But there's been budget cuts, so now you're on a long waiting list. Right?

TEE: Super long waiting list. I was supposed to be in and have a house, somewhere to stay since last June, and that was the time that they did the cuts. So I've been waiting and I'm still waiting on the list and that was my experience. You experienced the same, almost the same thing. It's like something that we all experience.

DARNELL KEYES: I'm experiencing that exact same thing as we speak. As a matter of fact, Friday is the day that I actually have to make a decision on where I'm going to go

PAM: Because you're in a transitional house just like you were. And they've told you, just like...

DARNELL: They told me the same thing. Time's up. It's time to go .

PAM: And you have a job. It's just not enough of an income to pay rent.

DARNELL: What's even more difficult about it is having a mental illness and other medical issues, and dealing with this type of situation. My anxiety level is just off the roof. I sleep, but I don't sleep. While I'm asleep. I'm dreaming about being homeless. You know what I mean?

TEE: You even mentioned the anxiety. Yeah, about how you're smoking.

DARNELL: Yeah. 15 years in the BOP, no drugs or alcohol, no smoking, no nothing. I come home, now I'm all of a sudden I'm smoking because I'm worried about where I'm going to lay my head. And that's smoking tobacco products? Yeah, smoking tobacco products. Excuse me. Yeah, let me clarify that just for the record. And then of course the alternatives to where I'm at now are way more strict because it's like they want me to go to a sober-living type of environment.

PAM: A lot of supportive housing assumes that you're an addict.

DARNELL: So because I don't fit that status quo, they either don't want to accept me or they want to take my money and then subject me to some rudimentary behavior.

PAM: What he is talking about is that it seems like the housing that's the most available is for people who have substance abuse problems or really severe mental illness. So they impose a curfew, say you can't drink at all. You have to go through urine testing. You might as well be back in prison.

DARNELL: And I'm not going pay my hard-earned money to be treated like I'm either a recovering addict or a child. No, I'll go to a shelter.

PAM: The other alternative is, and you just mentioned it, a shelter.

But I have a friend who also went through this process and he stayed [in the shelter] and he didn't have any choice. He went into what they call a low-barrier-entry shelter, which means you can go immediately. Anybody can go. But I tell you what, it's a dangerous place. I can see why people don't want to go there. Within two days all his property was stolen. He took a shower, and while he was in the shower, all his property was stolen. And then I think in the first week or so, there were two stabbings.

TEE: Oh, wow.

PAM: Yeah. Sure, you can go there, but they're dangerous. They're dangerous. And for somebody that's coming out of prison who's trying to start a stable...

TEE: It feels like prison. It feels like you're in prison.

PAM: And then, if you're trying to go to a job, well, you can't leave your property (in the shelter) or it'll be all gone.

DARNELL: You can't take your property to work. You can't take your property to work.

PAM: Yeah.

DARNELL: You know what I mean. I've accumulated some good stuff since I've been home, things that I actually want to hold on to. So that's an added worry too. Where am I going to store my stuff? Bad enough, where an I going to lay my head, but also what am I going to do with the stuff that I've grown so accustomed to having now? And what I was told when I went to one of the organizations for help, is that returning citizens are placed at the very bottom in society. You have, first people in families. Then the second one is women with children, single women with children, single women with children. Then you have people with mental health problems or serious medical problems and then returning citizens. You are at the bottom.

TEE: Oh, thank you for telling me. Explaining to me why I haven't got housing.

DARNELL: Plus, as well as the budget cuts, every time you turn around, they're cutting some type of funding for a nonprofit organization because they're saying, oh, well last year y'all only used this amount of money, so this year we're only going to give you X amount of dollars to operate now.

PAM: And the crazy thing is that for Darnell...so, he gets this job, it's really important that he have a consistent work record, but he's under so much stress knowing that any day he could be without housing at all, they had to give him time off of work so he can run around to all these different agencies two or three or four times.

DARNELL: Four days.

PAM: That's crazy to me.

DARNELL: Four days: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. And I only get five days of work.

PAM: So, you're not getting the income.

DARNELL: Because I'm still trying to figure out where I'm going to move to. Of course it might not sound easy to say that I'm going to go to a shelter, but that's exactly what I'm going to do because I'm used to the environment of being in prison anyway. I still haven't really gotten used to being home yet. I came home July 16th of this year. It 's been nothing but chaos almost since I been home. Home from the halfway house. Yeah, home from the halfway house, BOP custody, let's put it that way. And I just found the transitional house where I can actually go and stay. And you have to buy your own food. You don't have to pay rent. So I was hoping that...I found a job immediately. You don't have to pay rent? Like, oh, wait a minute, I could stack some money for a change! I literally got my job September 30th. I was supposed to be out [of the transitional home] October 16th. I got a 90-day extension.

It's actually not even a 90-day extension. No. Yeah, because it was postponed until November 15th. And then when they realized...I was like, okay, look, November 15th is here. I still have no place to go. So now it's this Friday.

TEE: I can imagine, I mean I imagine every day not knowing where you're going to go to put your head down.

PAM: And to me this is what is wrong. I mean, DC does have a... you were talking about this... DC has a reputation for being so good compared to most other municipalities. And it is, but not when it comes to housing. And what I don't understand and I think is fundamentally wrong here is it's up to you guys when you're trying to work. You're trying to just get used to whatever and you have to run around to all these different agencies. And I think you've been, it's been two or three times going back. Can't there be, there should be one place you go who knows your needs. And also, why can't they anticipate this? They know who's coming. They know who's in the court.

DARNEL: You want a real answer to that question? I've noticed from going to the different nonprofit organizations, it's who you know and who you are. And I agree with that. Because you could be a nobody and walk in the door and they're going to tell you, well, yeah, well... They're going to treat you like they don't even want you there. But if you are somebody who has a name for themselves out in the street or who actually had a name while he was in prison, you'll get treated a whole lot differently. You are welcomed for having an infamous, I guess you could say, mindset or behavior.

PAM: See, I just got into an argument with somebody because somebody got a voucher like this. I'm like, how did you get a voucher instantly? You can't get a voucher instantly unless you know somebody. And that shouldn't be. But now here's the interesting about vouchers though. Remember the guy that I said that went to the shelter and had everything stolen?

TEE: Yeah.

PAM: Well, he finally got temporary housing; he got housing for a year. Then that ended. He waited for two years, but he got the voucher. But get this, you'd think that'd be it. Because the way a voucher works is that the district will pay your rent up to a certain amount of money. You think, wow, that's perfect. Right? He can't find anybody to take the voucher. Because there are two reasons. One is that some places just don't like vouchers because they get paid slower. They have to go through these inspections that are pretty intrusive. It's just too bureaucratic. So some places just won't take vouchers period. And then you have other places that will take the voucher but don't want your criminal background. I mean, it was crazy. He finally found somebody to take the voucher, but it's in a very slum landlord kind of neighborhood.

I mean you would think that we would think about these things ahead of time. So this is one thing I've noticed: Accepting a sentence; it's not that you're getting the time that fits the punishment. It's like you're going to continue to be punished for the remainder of your life. Now as a convicted felon, people just look at you in so many different lights and there's almost no room for you to be able to grow back into humanity. People are like, the first thing they're thinking, oh, well, he's going to either steal something or he must be a sex offender, or he must be a murderer. He's everything but another human being having a serious issue that needs to be dealt with.

DARNELL: And that's why I say...We need more people at all of these halfway houses and nonprofit organizations that are a lot more benevolent to the people and who actually understand, who are aware themselves of what it's like to be homeless or to go through some of these things that we're going through as a convicted felon. There is no, "you served your time" and what is the terminology they use? "You've paid your debt to society" because when you come back home, you really see how society feels about you when you need help.

PAM: So what I really think, I've been talking to somebody in the DC council who's in charge of oversight for housing, and I really think that it should be a group of...what I'm trying to convince them to do is get a group of returned citizens together and have them hear some of these real-life...Because when I talk to them, they tend to think their policies are working well.

They think, oh no, "that's this agency's job. Just go there." And I try to tell them, but no, they've tried that and maybe it works with this person because who knows? I don't know. This person gets a voucher, but how come this person can't? And so it's not working consistently for everybody and they don't know that. And so I'm thinking that if we could do some kind of exercise so they hear some of these real life experiences, they'll realize that policies on paper and programs and policies in actuality...there's a big gap. And I bet you that if they allowed you guys to come up with solutions...but I'm not aware of them ever really asking.

DARNELL: I think we even need to go as far as making a nonprofit organization just actually ran by returning citizens who are actually not going to just, when they get a position, feel like they're high and mighty now, so they don't have to actually deal with another person as if it would be themselves. I think that's missing in a lot of these nonprofit organizations because they no longer put themselves in your shoes. There's no empathy, you know, sympathy. Now, we don't want you to feel sorry for us. What we want you to do is put yourself in our shoes so that you can understand exactly how we may feel or exactly what we may or may not have gone through.

And that's what's missing now. Because I noticed some of the nonprofit organizations that I've went to, they've actually had attitudes because they have to do certain paperwork and telephone calls. And I'm sitting there like, well, isn't this your job? Aren't you a returning citizen who was given a job by this nonprofit organization? But yet the client that just left before me, you bigged them up because he's somebody out in society. But for somebody who you don't know and who you haven't heard from for a while, you give them the blues when they come in here. She even got on my probation officer: "Well, y'all wait till the last minute to come here." Hell, lady, from the moment I went to this transitional home, I've been trying to find a place to live. I have been asking all of you nonprofit organizations for aid and assistance, and all I get is the run around.

PAM: Again, it's that hamster running around. Do you have any thoughts about what you think some of the solutions might be?

TEE: Well, just like what Darnell just said, I believe that returning citizens do need to get together and form some nonprofit organization that focuses on the needs of returning citizens. Because we care for them, we know what they're going to go through. We know what they're going through and we care more for them because we experienced it. So just by dealing with the homelessness situation with returning citizens, I think that we do need to talk to the DC Council and get something done about putting returning citizens not on the bottom of the list, but somewhere in the middle of the list at least. If you care about public safety.

PAM: And the thing is, it's one of those things you should be able to predict. I mean, especially with the IRAA law, the law that allows people to come home earlier, that's a predictable stream of people. And it's not like some things that maybe you don't know is coming. We know it's coming. And I think if we did our research properly, we could sort of make some predictions. And then I think what is required is some things for returning citizens that are immediate: immediate housing that you arrange before they come out. And it can't just be for 30 days or 90 days. How long do you think it would take before, if somebody has a job, to start paying rent?

TEE: At least a year? A year to at least a year to 18 months.

PAM: So it needs to be, to me, 30 days, 90 days is sort of...what's that supposed to do?

DARNELL: I mean, 30 days, 90 days, goes so quick. It felt like a weekend, a couple of weekends.

TEE: Just me just thinking about it: Although it did help me, it didn't help me as much as I needed to be helped.

PAM: And it didn't give you anything to go to afterwards.

TEE: Yeah, it didn't.

PAM: The only one final comment I'll make is, you mentioned about... there are organizations in DC that are led by people who are returned citizens, but I wonder...In a lot of cases, it's been a while. And so maybe if there was a rotating leadership, so there were people who are not too far away from it that still can feel...And things change over time. But also, I guess a comment I would make is...and you've all heard me say this before. I talked about something called participatory democracy, which means citizens helping to make government decisions. And I think that when they sit down to allocate the money that goes to returning citizen programs, that there should be a participatory budgeting process so that returned citizens could have a real say in how it's allocated. Because it seems to me, tell me if you think I'm wrong, that there be a lot of...

TEE: You're right. You're right.

PAM: And it's like all the money's going here. Well, you have this huge need where very little is going.

And they're cutting. One of the nonprofit organizations that I still actually have a job through, their budget has been cut several times. So now the alternative is to send you to job readiness classes.

They hop from job readiness to job readiness to job readiness program because they're paying you to be there.

DARNELL: And they're paying so handsomely. They're paying more than what the average person gets every two weeks.

PAM: But it's not doing anything...

DARNELL: A whole month, I should say.

You're just program hopping, workshop hopping.

PAM: Yeah.

DARNELL: And that's what I was trying to avoid doing because I could have easily just went on ahead and hopped to another workshop and it would've been all right, but I was like, man, I'm ready to work. I need some extra help finding employment in my field of expertise. Help me get back into hospitality. Don't just send me somewhere to have me go in here and I'm just going to sit here and we are going to just watch people write on the bulletin board.

PAM: Well see, and I know we could go on and on about this probably. I was going to comment related to what you just said. I think that there should be more focus on training in specific marketable skills because that's what will get you into a job that actually has income, potential growth, versus some of these job readiness programs where you'll end up just going into manual labor jobs that don't have any future.

DARNELL: The field of study that I had been in was executive housekeeping... I'm back in hospitality now. The issue now that I've been struggling with is getting back into vocational training through the International Executive Housekeeping Association so that I can actually be re-designated as an executive housekeeper.

PAM: So now you'll have a skill. And the same with you. I mean, at least you've got into a program where you have a professional job that you can keep growing, but so many others end up being security guards, landscaping, cleaning, and it's not something... so many and I can understand it, they want a job that has some growth in it so they can be independent. And if you're not learning a skill that's marketable...And that could start in prison, by the way.

TEE: And it can start in prison, and it started in prison for me. However, a lot of prisons don't offer the vocational skills that a returning citizen needs.

PAM: And are currently marketable.

Anyway, we've gone a long time. But I think these are really important issues for people coming out of prison to be successful. These kinds of programs are essential. And I guess the final thing that I would say is involve them...They know the problems. Government officials and nonprofits too should be asking their clients all along, how is this working for you and how can we make it better? Anyways, so thank you so much for listening and watching, and I hope you subscribe so you will be notified of our future episodes.

TEE: Thank you. DARNELL: Thank you.