The Grim Grub of the Incarcerated

When you sit down to your next meal,  be thankful for the small joy that good food offers. People in prison long for that same pleasantry. Join Pam Bailey and Irving Brockman as they share the punishing reality of prison food, with insights from current prisoners Elijah Williams, Wallace Mitchell, Askia Afrika-Ber and Tyrone Briscoe. 

You'll hear about empty stomaches, moldy bread, rotten fruit and insect-laden grains. isn't just a health hazard—it's a daily struggle for dignity. 

Follow this podcast so you'll be informed when new episodes are uploaded (twice a month). Meanwhile, read more stories and learn how you can contribute to reform; visit MoreThanOurCrimes.

Chapters

• 0:13 Prison Food
• 10:02 Challenges and Creativity in Prison Food
• 17:45 Importance of Food and Future Potential

Transcript

PAM BAILEY: Hi, I'm Pam Bailey. I'm host of Voices Unlocked, a podcast produced by More Than Our Crimes. We're dedicated to bringing the humanity behind bars out to you. We focus on federal prisons.

There was a report that just came out from the inspector general of the Department of Justice. They sent a team unannounced to inspect a medium-security prison in Tallahassee, Florida. And the headline finding is that they found prisoners being served moldy bread. They found bugs crawling in boxes of cereal in the kitchen. They went to the warehouse where they stored food and  found spoiled and rotten food in all the containers. And you know, that sounds terrible. I talked to a friend who read the same report. And she was appalled. I'd like to be able to say that was an unusual finding, but it's actually not. I hear it from members of our network all the time.

There was actually also a report that came out, I think, about two years ago, from a group called Impact justice. They focused on food specifically and they actually called food a form of hidden punishment. It's used as punishment by the prison system. So that's what we're gonna be focusing on in this episode today, prison food. And my co-host is Irving Brockman. You've spent about 30 years in prison and were released in 2020. When I say prison food to you, what comes to mind?

IRVING BROCKMAN: The first thing that comes to mind is, "Thank God that it's over with!" Disgust. For most for most of the time that I spent in the federal system, getting a hot meal or food that was cooked properly was hard to come by. And I guess for most of us, we couldn't wait until Thanksgiving or Christmas or one of the major holidays when most of the staff would be there to eat the food as well. That's when you know it's going to be cooked properly. But everyday meals? Most of the time, you walk into the kitchen and immediately turn around. You'd rather eat ramen noodle soup and some crackers than go in there and eat what they have in the kitchen. 

If you can, picture the soup that they have on the hot bar. It looks like when I was a kid and would go out in the country and see the food they used to prepare for the hogs and all this stuff would be mixed in. That's how it looked. You know, it's a bunch of beans, rice and stuff that was left over from the day before. Beans are uncooked. Rice is uncooked or partially cooked. You go in there for some grilled cheese, on the day they may have grilled cheese. The bread is warm and the cheese is cold. You know, the juice, even the juice...Like, I've seen that juice spill out on the floor and when you go to wipe it up, that stain is never coming off the floor. Just imagine what it does to your insides.

PAM: It's sad because food is really one of the pleasures of life, if you think about it, for all of us. One of the individuals I interviewed for the show is named Elijah Williams. He's from a high-security penitentiary called Victorville in California. And what you're going to hear in his first interview bite is that he focuses on the small portion sizes. This is probably one of the things I hear the most from network members. And I think it may be surprising to a lot of our listeners who sort of assume that people are at least getting enough food to to get by on. But keep in mind, in this case we're talking about a prison of adult men, who have have appetites. And I often hear that if you can't go to the commissary, the prison store, to buy extra food, you'll be hungry. So this is what Elijah talks about.

ELIJAH JOHNSON: We're undernourished because it is a simple fact that we only get maybe 1,200 calories, sometimes 900, and that's with all three meals put together. Especially if you got to eat from boxes and box lunches and stuff like that. Because some of the meats and stuff are not edible. So you just have to throw it away in the garbage or whatever. So, now you only got bread and an apple and you may have peanut butter, which is one of the favorites that they kind of push out quite often. 

The other thing is they have a tendency of doing long lockdowns and during these long lockdowns, you know, you're not going to the store. We went one time, this year, 13 weeks without going to the store, without buying anything. So we had to eat whatever they gave us. And what they gave you, some of it wasn't edible, like I told you. It's difficult because you get very, very small portions and  you've grown men in here. And some men are bigger than others, and they need their food. People lose weight all the time. If they took a survey to see how many people lose weight here, there'd be a huge amount of people who have lost weight this year alone.

PAM: So, Elijah just mentioned sometimes getting a box or bag meal. And I think probably most people, when they think of prison, because of the shows you've seen on TV or something, they think of these big cafeterias or chow halls that people go to. So talk a little bit about when you go to a chow hall or cafeteria versus, I guess during a lockdown, when you end up getting bags or something.

IRVING: I was in USP Beaumont at one time and that was the first institution that I went to where you stayed locked down a lot. It was always... Beaumont had a nickname: Bloody Beaumont. There was always something happening on that compound and you got locked down. In 2005, I'll never forget...I got down to Beaumont in May 2005. And later that year is when the hurricane hit Texas and we were locked in the cells for maybe two weeks. We had no running water and the food that we were getting... Every day was the same baloney. The meat smelled so bad, but you had to eat it because there was nothing. There was no commissary. There was nothing so you had to literally choke down this meat. The color of it was gray green. The smell of it was horrible. It was horrible. And you know, this was something that they handed out to you even during regular lockdowns. So, going to the cafeteria, compared to the lockdowns, was definitely a benefit. 

The size of the meals that they give you...I recall several times that there were fights in the kitchen about the portions that would be given to you. Like, you know, you're feeding grown men and you're giving me one spoon of rice or one spoon of potatoes? You could count seven fries on your tray. Sometimes, we'd make a bet. Like, I bet we'll get more than 10 fries on that tray. And during my entire time incarcerated, I stayed under 200 pounds, well up until I got nearer to getting out. And then I came home and I gained 60 pounds in no time. The food is just totally different. You know, the taste, the smell. You'll never forget it. You'll never forget it.

PAM: So, the bags....when you're locked down, you'll be fed food in a box or a bag?

IRVING: A box or a bag. Some institutions have boxes; some institutions have bags. But they all have the same thing. I don't know how many institutions, but I know mainly in the Midwest out to the West Coast, they give you this bag of water and you can smell the water, like smell it. I mean the water smells stale... I can't even describe it. It's inside of a bag, and you know, most of the times the milk comes in the same bag and most times the milk is spoiled. But this water... the water is horrible. It's horrible. But you know, you have to drink it. You have to drink it.

PAM: I have a friend who just got out of prison. He was a government whistleblower. And one of the things he told me when he got out, and he just wrote a column about this that he published, is that when he was in the kitchen, he actually saw crates of food that were labeled "not for human consumption." It was meant for animal feed. And they were actually using it in the kitchen. It sounds shocking, but if you read this report from Tallahassee, you realize that no, this actually happens all the time. 

One of the other people that I interviewed for this episode, who we've featured before, his name is Askia Afrika-Ber. That's the name he has taken in prison. He's at a penitentiary called McCreary in Kentucky. And he talks a little bit about how it's actually pretty routine to have fruit, for instance, that's really on the edge of being bad. That's what their idea of fruit is. So let's let's listen to him.

ASKIA AFRIKA-BER: Yes, I have encountered rotten food, particularly rotten fruit. They give you fruit that's rotten. You know, bananas, apples, that have already practically gone bad. There's only parts of it, small portions of it, that you can eat. And I'll say this, the food is either lukewarm or it's cold. You never receive a hot meal. That's the thing, right there. The food that you're going to get is going to be cold. If you get your oatmeal or your grits in the morning, they're going to be cold, clumped together, stuck together, so it's not an enjoyable meal.

PAM: You know, one thing we just heard from Askia, and I hear this a lot, is a complaint about not getting a hot meal. They want at least one hot meal a day. And maybe you could talk a little bit about the psychological importance...I mean, there's the fact that some food is meant to be served hot. And also, just getting boloney or cold food all the time. What's the importance? What do you remember? Why does it stick out in your head, not getting a hot meal?

IRVING: For me, most of the people that complain about not getting hot meals, most of the time, that's because you're in an institution that stays locked down. A lot of times, the lockdowns are unjustified for the amount of time that they keep us locked down. There are policies that, you know, that every 72 hours, we should be allowed to have, or we should have, a hot meal. Right? Most institutions honor it. No, let me rephrase that. Some institutions honor it, and most don't. So, you know, as I said, I was at USP Beaumont, where we went... it was on lockdown, I think, for maybe three months at one time for a homicide and maybe we received two hot meals during that time. And I think your body kind of craves something that it's used to. You know, if you're used to eating something that's hot, then you go to eating just cold food for a long period of time, it doesn't...I guess it has something to do with the way you digest the food or whatever.  All of the food is bad, but I would rather eat it hot than eat it cold. It smells worse when it's cold.

PAM: It sounds like it's peanut butter and boloney, peanut butter and boloney, when you're getting these bag lunches.

IRVING: But, you know, I would rather have the peanut butter over the boloney, because the boloney is...Like I say, the meat...I wish you could see some photographs of the meat that they serve us when we're on lockdown. The color of the meat. I've never seen meat that color before.

PAM: In an interview that's coming up, you're going to be hearing...He talks about the fact that he wanted to take pictures. He knew that if they would just let them take pictures of the food, people would understand, and they wouldn't let him do that. They wouldn't let him send pictures out. 

The next person who is talking is Wallace Mitchell. He is from Beaumont; you were talking about Beaumont and he's from there. And actually, the rest of the individuals who you'll hear are from Beaumont, in Texas. Wallace talks about the particular trouble if, let's say you have a health condition that requires special foods. Like maybe you have high blood pressure and you should stay away from processed foods or highly salty foods or something like that. And prison really doesn't cater to that. So that's what he talks about next.

WALLACE  MITCHELL: Firstly, everything you get is processed. If you're one of those persons who's trying to avoid processed foods, that's going to be complicated. Also, I've noticed that allergens are hard. Some people are allergic to nuts or soy. Soy is in almost everything now, and particularly in prison foods, even in the commissary, right? So for people who are allergic to soy, this is very bad for them. They're not gonna have much to select from. 

PAM: The next interview is with Tyrone Briscoe. He's also at Beaumont. And you're going to hear that he's really disgusted with the food. He says what I've heard from a lot of the guys, who sort of wonder where the money's going. They know that all the prisons are supposed to have guidelines for nutrition, and they get a certain budget. So, where's it going? And they speculate that some of the good food is being brought home by the staff. Whether that's true, I don't know. But it's common thinking. And so, we'll hear from Tyrone and this is the soundbite that I mentioned where he says that if they would just let him send pictures out of the food, that would say more than we could in words. You'd look at the pictures and you'd know the food was bad. So, this is Tyrone,

TYRONE BRISCOE: Right now, we don't even know what we're eating. It's watered down. It's garbage. The Bureau (of Prisons) is worth $8 billion. There's no way they can be worth $8 billion and we're eating like this. In the '70s, in the '80s, and some people say in the '90s, the food was all right. Right now, we don't know what we're eating. Why are we eating like this? I asked them, "Let me take a picture of the food for seven days." They won't do it. I could send it to Internal Affairs. That way, you would see what we're eating. If they'd let me take a picture, I'd pay for it myself. It's been done before, but they won't let me do it. The only way that you would know how the food looks, is for me to take a picture of it. We wake up and get cereal, a little pastry that fits in your hand, some powered milk and an apple. We've been getting an apple for going on four months. Your kid gets more than that with a Happy Meal.

PAM: The next thing that Wallace talks about at Beaumont is that the one sort of bright spot is when they're allowed to go to the commissary. Now, one thing I'm hearing about repeatedly, is that sometimes for punishment, collective punishment, if there's, say, a fight between two people, the entire unit gets their commissary privileges taken away. So, this stops that. That means they have to rely only on prison food. So now you know why that's a punishment. But, when they can go to the commissary, they've gotten  creative at taking the items they can buy in the prison store and making these really elaborate recipes: desserts and and pizzas and all sorts of things. And usually there's somebody on the unit who becomes known as being a really good cook. And he's one of them. He gives an example of one recipe he makes for pizza. So let's let's listen. 

WALLACE: We have developed what are known as prison recipes, for multiple different things that we do with food, right. For example, we've learned how to make pizzas virtually from scratch. We take crackers or Honey Buns and we flatten them out with makeshift rolling pins, which could be anything that's round (it could be deodorant or whatever, right?) into a dough, pizza dough. We cut up sausages, different vegetables and things and add it. And then we hit it with open fire that we make out of toilet paper rolls. What we do is we roll toilet paper into these things that we call bombs, right? And then we light them and it causes it to burn with a blue flame. As you probably know, blue flame burns hotter than red flame. And we put it on our locker or a metal table, which makes a makeshift oven or makeshift grill. And that's how we're able to cook things. 

PAM: OK, so the one thing I was wondering and I forgot to ask him during the interview, is he talks in that bite we just heard about how they they created their own fire using toilet paper rolls. And what I was trying to figure out, and I think maybe a lot of our listeners and viewers are wondering, is... they don't have matches. They don't allow matches in prison. So how do they actually create a flame? 

IRVING: Well, you can take a double-A battery, and what you do is, you shave off the side of the AA battery. And you get a piece of aluminium, like a little strip of aluminum foil, from maybe a Goya pack or whatever. And you put one side on the positive [end], and you take the other part and you touch it to the shaved side of the battery, and you put it up on the toilet paper roll and that's how it will get hot and flame up. So the prison system has been trying to  do away with batteries because of that.

PAM: But it seems like they will find a way around it. I mean, I'm just really impressed by the creativity that they use to create these social moments with with food. Do you remember from your time in prison? Like, were you one of those people who was known as a really good cook? Or do you remember somebody on your unit that was really good at making cakes or something?

IRVING: Well, there are a few people that I remember. Because I know when I came home, I had a craving for cheesecake. There was a lot of guys that I know who knew how to make cheesecake. And they would make cheesecakes with graham crackers and a mixture of stuff and I mean, they be good. They be good and I was like, if this is what a cheesecake tastes like here, I can't wait to find out how [it really tastes like] when I come home and get an actual cheesecake. But they be good.

PAM: I'm just really impressed. You know, even though the prison takes away certain things, like things with sugar in it because you can make alcohol out of it, there's a way around it. And I think that's a sign of hope, you know; that where there's a will there is a way and they'll recreate a little bit of home in prison. 

IRVING: The other one is nachos. I know some guys who can make really good nachos. I mean, they should be out here making money off those nachos that they made in prison.

PAM: They should try that. So, in the next bite, we're going back to Wallace, and he talks about these people who are so good at cooking, they turn it into a side hustle, an actual business, especially because it's really hard to get prison jobs. So it's a way to generate some income.

WALLACE: People like me, I'm what's known as one of the institution's cooks. I can take the bare necessities and make meals for men. And what it comes down to is this: All of us out in the free world become accustomed to certain foods and things that we know, right? Some people use it to make money, what's called a hustle, their source of income, or supplement to their income, right? Other people give it away. You have different groups in prison: gangs, geographical locations, religious groups. Everyone runs with a certain group of people. So you might make something for your group when its celebrating something, you know. It might be a religious holiday or something to that effect. So you might put together a meal for the people in that group. And you spend your time up to that day, with everybody collecting stuff, chipping in and making the meal the day before the celebration.

PAM: I just came back not too long ago from an international prison reform conference in Belgium. And I found it both discouraging and inspiring: discouraging in that the U.S. is way behind. But inspiring in that I heard what some other places are doing. And one of the things they talked about was food. There's a number of Western European prisons that are now allowing prisoners to officially do their own cooking, not surreptitiously on the side. They actually have a kitchen, where prisoners for each unit can go in with knives and everything. And they partner with local suppliers, so they have local farmers bringing in fresh vegetables. So, there's some choice involved and [prisoners are] not dictated to in terms of what you have to make. It's actually working out really well. It becomes a real social time, you know, for the men to cook together. And it's a privilege that they really like so they do what they have to do to to maintain it.

And it's healthier. They actually have found... they're doing a study and they don't have the results yet, to watch the health benefits of having fresh vegetables. So, that's a sign that other people recognize the importance of food, and maybe the U.S. can get to that sometime in the future. 

On that inspiring note, we're going to end this episode. I hope that everybody out there will follow and subscribe to the podcast so you'll see future episodes and share them with your friends. Thank you.